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  • Posted by NinaLucas 3 months ago. There are 20 posts. The latest reply is from Teresa C..

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  1. Something that has been on my mind for several weeks now. Are we to worship Messiah Yeshuah? Or did He tell us to worship His Father in Heaven? I thought I read a scripture awhile back where He told a man He had just healed not to worship Him but to go and worship His Father...However, I cannot find this passage. Perhaps I made this up in my mind.
    I have read in many places that one of the things we should not be doing is worshiping Yeshua, because after all He is not Elohim. He is the Word of Elohim. Anyone?

    Another thought I had during worship service some weeks back....There are many worship songs that say things like, "worship the Lamb". So I started to think back to the original Passover Lamb and how the Israelites were not told to worship the Lamb. Yet, today we Worship the Lamb...Yeshuah being the Lamb. Is this the correct thing to do??

  2. Shalom Nina,

    Funny you should ask this, I just ran across a good article on this subject by Daniel Botkin that is posted on the new Messianic Covenant Community website. Here's the link: http://www.messianiccovenant.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68:the-deity-of-yeshua&catid=77&Itemid=473

    NOTE: The part about worship is a little ways down the page.

    Shalom,
    Ryan

  3. John 4:21
    “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

    John 4:23
    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

  4. Shalom,

    Here are some scriptures to show that yes, it's ok to worship The Lamb but certainly not a lamb. Yeshua did tell us to worship His father in heaven and because Yeshua was the Word, that praise would include Him also.

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    (Joh 1:1 KJV)

    Here are some other verses that show Yeshua in the Tanakh and the B'rit Chadashah;

    And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? (Jdg 13:18 KJV)

    His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. (Rev 19:12 KJV)
    ***************************************************************************************
    For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
    (Deu 10:17 KJV)

    And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
    (Rev 19:15-16 KJV)

    ***************************************************************************************
    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
    (Isa 9:6-7 KJV)

    Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
    ******************************************************************************************

    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
    (Rev 5:6-14 KJV)
    *****************************************************************************************

    Glory
    G1391
    δόξα
    doxa
    dox'-ah
    From the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honour, praise, worship.

    Worshipped
    G4352
    προσκυνέω
    proskuneō
    pros-koo-neh'-o
    From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.

    Lamb of God, forever and ever, Lord of Lords, King of Kings are all words that thread Yeshua's existance throughout the bible.

    Here is more;

    Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

    Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

    Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

    Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

    Mat 20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.

    Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

    Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

    Shalom,

    ps Ryan, Very good article!

  5. Actually, there is a difference between worship and praying. Praying, we all know what it is but in case you don't know, it means to go into your room, close the door behind you and in secrete, get in your knees and pray to our heavenly father which are in heaven, Yahweh Elohim. But as form the Son, he is not to be prayed to because he himself told us only to pray to our Heavenly Father. He taught us how to pray to him.

    To pray it means to to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc. but without reverent honor and accepting his Son, the Father will never answer. That is why he said that if you believe, you can ask the father for anything in his Son's name and he will give it to you, so that way the father will be much glorified in the Son.

    But to be worship only meaning reverent honor, homage and adoring reverence, the kind of attitude and behavior we should feel towards the Son just like his Father Yahweh our Elohim Of Israel.

    Master Yahshua our teacher would want us to worship him as we worship the father, meaning to honor, revere and adore him because that is why he said we should honor him as we honor his father. But we are to pray only to our heavenly holy father in heaven only not him. This is what he would want us to do if we truly love him as he has loved us. Besides, before he left, he said, "I am going to my father who is greater than me." So why pray to his Son when his father is greater? Even he said that there is only one that is good, that Yahweh our Elohim is one, that he is the Son and that all authority of heaven and earth has been given to him by the Father.

    People need to know the difference between worship and praying. And as Teresa stated, it is in the scriptures that he must be worshiped just like the father but not prayed to, only the father must be prayed to so that he will be glorified in his Son every time we ask the father for anything in his Son's name Yahshua.

    So many people are praying to him and that is wrong, although it is okay to talk to him because he also hears us, especially in secret in the same way as when we pray to the father in secret as well. Satan has deceived the world into thinking that he never died and that Elohim never had a Son. But for those who believe, he has deceived them into thinking that he is Yahweh our Elohim and that he deserved to be prayed to and that Yahweh our Elohim has a mother also.

    Everything is written in the scriptures for one not to be deceived but the words are spiritual and only the spiritual born again believer can understand. For example, John said that, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." One who is not spiritually born again will think that the Son is God when that is not what John said.

    In the beginning was the word because before anything can be created in existence there has to be given a word and knowing who gave the word will make one understand with who the word was with and who the word was. God's Son was the expression of Elohim's word and that is why with Elohim's word, his Son which came to bring us the word became flesh through the word in order to fulfill the word. When the Son said that he is the bread of heaven he was simply saying that he is the expression of what God wants and that we must eat of it, his words of what he was telling us what his father wanted from us. Everything was made through the Son because he was the expression of his Father's word. That is why he said that he only does what his father does because his father's words remain in him as he remain in his father. The only way we can remain in him as he remain in his Father is by us remaining in him in his words as he remains in us by his Spirit that is reminding us of his words that he spoke about that belongs to the father regarding his Son.

    So when you read the scripture when it says that the word was made flesh, it is only saying that the word of God, which was with God and is God was born flesh through the Spirit of God so that he can give us the word which comes from the father. That is why he said that no one has ever seen God but only him that came from heaven, just as the Son of Man which are in heaven meaning that only he who the father send will bring the words to the children of Israel. He is only the expression of God's word and doing what his father does and say. He is perfect just as his Father is perfect, holy and unblemished and without sin just like the father who became flesh, knowing that according to the law, no flesh is justifiable before God, in order to fulfill the law and what the prophets were saying concerning him. They were a witnesses of what God's word was saying to them through the Spirit. The Son never was, is and never will be God. He is the image and likeness of our God and the expression of his divine expression by which we imitate by putting his words in practice so that because of him we too will be sons of God. Without one being spiritual, one will never understand what the disciples were saying, because in order to be spiritual one must first be born again of the spirit meaning one must die first a spiritual death in order to be born again of the spirit. Only then, will one become servants of the disciple and do and accept what they said. That is why our Master said to them, "Who ever wants to be the greatest among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must learn to be last."

    All this misunderstanding about our Master and his earthly mother and about God comes from the catholic church because of what they did when they tried to bury the truth regarding the resurrection, how they changed the days, how they say that the commandments are no longer good and how one must not keep the Sabbath and how it is okay to eat pork. It is all a lie. They tampered with the scriptures but the real children of Israel have preserved the real scriptures. That is why you see a lot of paganism in the congregation of Yahshua our teacher.

    So let us worship Yahshua and Yahweh Elohim but let us only pray to our heavenly father in heaven and ask for him to forgive us, to strengthen us and keep us in the love of Yahshua and to protect the real children of Israel, the Jews and us from evil and the evil ruler of this world that stands condemned and judged.

  6. The misunderstanding of who Yeshuah really is sparked my question. No...He is not Elohim just as has been stated above. I just recently came to this realization. You explain it very well Alex. Let me add to that how it has been explained to me....
    Take a glass and fill it with ocean water. The ocean is the ocean and the water in the glass is the ocean as well...but, not the entire ocean. However, it is all ocean and everything ocean...just not the ocean in its entirety. The water in the glass contains everything the ocean contains...all its characteristics and properties...yet it is not the ocean. Same with Yeshuah...He is like that glass of ocean water...everything about Him is of His Father...His character and authority...yet He is not the Father.
    I am still on the fence as to whether or not we should worship Him...I am still praying and studying on my own. I appreciate the input thus far.

  7. Okay, let me explain it to you in another way that you will be able to understand since i understand how you feel and the question you are asking. First, I know how you feel because i had to go through the same phases of confusion you now find your self in. If your ignorant, and love the truth and ask for him to guide you, being humble and teachable you will know the truth and be free from lies.

    We know that the word to pray means to get in one's own knee in secret and ask the father for anything, forgiveness, thanks, to offer devout petition, praise, etc. That is what praying mean and that is what Yahshua said for us to do when he said, "Ask the father for anything in my name and i will give it to you so that my father may be glorified in me." That is what praying is, to ask, to offer devout petition, to praise him, to give thanks and to ask for anything. Look the word up even in the dictionary, you will see that this is what the word means to pray. Our Holy Father in heaven is the only one that can be prayed to. If we ask the father for anything in his Son's name then the Son will give it to us since the Son remains in the father, in this way, the father will be glorified in the Son because the Son gives us what we ask the father what we want. That is why he said that no one can come to me if it isn't the father who sends him to me and once you believe in him and ask the father by praying to him, the Son will give whatever we ask the father for, therefore, the father will be glorified in him since the father is in him and he in the father. That is what it means when he said that no one can go to the father if not through me, meaning that if you don't believe in the Son, you prayer will never be heard or answered from the father. That is why he said that all authority of heaven and earth has been given to me, meaning that only Elohim can save you through his Son Yahshua by believing in him from Elohim's impeding judgement on earth because the evil ruler of this world has been judged and condemned.
    That is why one must be born again as to be able to understand these spiritual truth that only the Saints can understand.

    That is why his Son demands from us to be perfect as his Father is perfect. First by feeling sorry, then repenting, being born again spiritually and getting baptized. You will notice that once you are sorry for all that you have done, then you repent, the moment you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth, you are instantly born again at that very moment in the Spirit of the Yahweh because you refuse to walk after the flesh, meaning seeking the desire of the flesh anymore such as wanting to feel because of the feeling that lying, cheating, fornicating brings to the flesh, the mind and the heart. It is an evil feeling and an abomination before Yahweh our Elohim. Many people because never went through this process yet although they profess to be followers of Yahshua but hate the very words that he said when he said that it is the Spirit that gives life when he told Nicodemus that unless he is born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Yahweh our Elohim in which Yahshua has been given that Kingdom making him the King of a kingdom given to him by Yahweh our Elohim. They have only been baptize in water and having received the Spirit of Yahweh, they still resist the Spirit, not wanting to be born again because that means submitting, surrendering to the one Yahshua said would come to remind us of all that he said. But that is another story that needs to also be explained so that the Saints can be given more understanding in the wisdom of Yahshua our Master and only Teacher.

    Now as for worshiping, the word worshiping means reverent honor, homage and adoring reverence, the kind of attitude and behavior we should feel towards the Son just like his Father Yahweh our Elohim Of Israel. We have to have reverent honor to him, pay homage and adore him because that is what it means to worship him but you notice that worshiping is not the same as praying because praying is to ask, to offer devout petition, to praise him, to give thanks and to ask for anything but in secret where no one can see us. It is said also that Yahweh even wants the Holy Angels to Worship him meaning to adore him, to revere him and to have reverent honor towards him. But the Angels are not to pray to him only worship him just as his his Holy Father is also worshiped because the father wants us, including the angels to worship him but not to pray to him. Praying is not the same as worshiping just as much as worshiping isn't the same as praying.

    When the son said that you can ask the father for anything in my name i will give it to you, he was referring to that you can only pray to the father and ask him for anything in his Son's name and the Son will give it to you, in that way the Father will be glorified in the Son since the Son has all authority of heaven and earth. That is how he shares his glory with us by us remaining in the Son Yahshua as the father is glorified in him. That is why he also said that when the other helper comes, you will know that i am in my father and you are in me. The more the father is glorified in the Son because of the more you believe in the Son and put his words into practice, the more the Son share his glory with you for believing in him by remaining in him, his love and commandments, the glory he spoke about when his father shared it with him before the earth was made when praying to his father.

    So you pray only to His holy Father which is also our Heavenly Holy Father in Heaven. And you are only to worship him and the Son also but pray only to the Father only.

    In summary, this is what you should do. Pray to the father in secret just as Yahshua commanded us the Saints. And worship is different than praying but you are to also worship him just like His Father. But you are to pray only to His Father, even the Holy Angels Pray to the Holy Father only. But they worship the Son and the Father because it is commanded to them by the Father in Heaven for them to do but they are to worship his Son and the Father as well but pray only to the Father just as we also should do and have been commanded by his Holy Father and his Son Yahshua.

    I hope you understand the difference between Praying and worshiping. And if you need help, please, don't be afraid to ask me, that is why i have been created for, to help you understand and guide you and to remind you that you are loved by him very much..

  8. Also, if your born again of the Spirit, that means that although you are in the flesh, you no longer walk according to the flesh because you are now a new person, born of the Spirit of Yahweh our Elohim, the same Spirit that resurrected Yahshua is in you and you can hear what he is telling you and by this you don't need to study on your own because even the Scriptures says in 1John 2:27 "As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him." So you see, not even you are allowed to teach yourself although it is good to check for yourself if what he is saying is true since you do have doubts in your heart. I know that the only reason why so many people are having trouble is because they refuse to surrender. That is why this world will never get peace just as the Yahshua said when he said that don't think i came to bring peace to the earth, no i came to bring a sword meaning that for now on there will be 3 in favor of him against 2 and 2 in favor of him against 3. The enemy will be in your very house hold. The sword splits the truth from the false and many will hate it and will not accept it. Even my brother Paul said that the flesh lust after the Spirit but the Spirit does contrary to the flesh so that we may learn not to do our own will and do the will of Yahweh our Elohim in Yahshua instead. Many, the thought of surrendering one's will is a big thing but only to those who were never with Yahshua our Master from the very beginning. Many are being mislead because it means not being able to make more money off of Yahweh's words only to contradict his words. That is why many are not born again but only baptize and have made it into to affect at all. Being Spiritual is walking with the Spirit of Yahweh, walking in according to his ways, after his commandments, being transparent, not living a private life, bearing fruit of the Spirit, all 9 of them. That is what being born again is, that is what being perfect is all about by imitating the Son of Yahweh, Yahshua our Master who we should worship and our Holy Father who should also be worshiped and prayed only. Being born in the Spirit is what it means to be a new man, no longer doing what you want to do, to be taught by anyone else or by one self, and congregating with the real Saints and all of us having the mind of the anointed one, Yahshua our Teacher.

    For me, as an example, i was sorry for all that i have ever done and i repented for it, i cried to heaven because i sin against heaven, i sin against Yahshua who loved me and died for me so that sin will not triumph over me, i confess with my mouth all that i have done, and believe with my heart that he can save me and now i am born again. I felt at that moment my guilt leaving my body as a yoke around my neck made of steal, a chain that enslaved me to death because of all the evil i did only because i was deceived from the beginning and then became an expert in doing evil and tempting others, what a poor man i was, lost and condemned for not believing even when i knew the truth. When i wanted to do good, i did bad and when i did bad, more bad came about. What a wretched and poor man i am but thanks be my Yahweh our Elohim and his beloved Son who loved me that i went to him and pray to the Father and he heard my prayer, a sinner who was once lost but found, who was bound by chains around my neck like a yoke made of steal but made free in the Spirit of Yahweh. I have been bless and anointed because i surrendered to him with no question asked. This is what it means to be born again, not to be a hippocrite, to walk humbly with Yahweh by remaining in Yahshua and it is liberating, while the world fights for freedom that is false, we the Saints have freedom given to us by the shedding of the blood of our Master, making us Sons of Yahweh through him who is the fist and the last.....

    I only said this to you because i know your mind because of what the Spirit reveals to me concerning you and i know you love the truth because his truth is life. You are not alone and remain in the Spirit as the Spirit remains in Yahshua.....

  9. Shalom Alex,

    Thank you for your heart. Would you mind providing scripture for your thoughts? It would give everyone a place from which to discuss your conclusions.

    Thank you,

  10. Okay. Concerning about worship this is it as it was stated before and to add a few as well.

    Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

    Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

    Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

    Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

    Mat 20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.

    Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

    Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

    And these as well:

    Hebrews 1:6 "Let all Elohim's Angels worship him".

    Concerning about him not bring peace to the earth is found in this scripture:
    Mathew 10:34-36

    Concerning praying to the Father only is found in this scripture:
    Mathew 6:8-13

    Concerning that it is the Spirit that gives life is found in this scripture:
    John 6:63

    Concerning being born again is found in this scripture:
    John 6:5-8, 2 Corinthians 3:6

    And concerning that Elohim has a Son and that the Son is not Elohim is found in this scripture:

    Isaiah 45:18

    Concerning why one must surrender to the Spirit of Yahweh our Elohim is found in this scripture:

    Galatians 5:17 and Romans 8:5

    This is why John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said what he said in 1John 2:27 which a lot of people just don't want to do because they don't want to be born again meaning truly feel sorry and repent, in order to be born again. This is why Yahshua said that he will send another helper, one whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him or accept him. This can be found in the scripture in John 14:15-21 which will make what John said in 1John 2:27 makes so much sense and again Yahshua said to those who were with him that when the other helper comes, meaning another person whom the Saints will see because Yahweh Spirit that is in Yahshua will also be in him and will also be in the Saints. This is what Yahshua meant when he said, "He will take what is mines and will make it known to you because all authority of heaven and earth has been given to me. This can be found in the following scripture as well: John 16:12-15

    Concerning Yahshua Being glorified before the world earth was made and the glory that the father gave him he also shares with those who believe in him by remaining in the Spirit of Yahweh is found in this scripture: John 17:5 and John 17:20-23

    Concerning the fruit of the Spirit is found in the following scripture as well:
    Galatians 5:22-25

    There is more because there are so many things that i also know that aren't in the scripture but are not in contradiction to none of the scriptures as well that Yahweh has revealed to me. But it will all be revealed to the Saints just as Yahweh has promised through his Son Yahshua, this can be found in the scriptures as well:

    Mathew 10:26 and Deuteronomy 29:29

    Please, don't feel a shame of asking me for anything you are not sure to know. I will tell you all that he has revealed to me. May the Grace of Yahweh and Yahshua remain in you. Peace be with you......

  11. I think we as christians coming to the True faith have alot of questions. I was that way, I was a Lutheran, Taught in Lutheran private schools the old testement and the new. Nothing made sense for me, what a difference the teachings were from the old to the new, like the old testement didnt mean anything. Its all one book for me, just how I love novels, I had to start at the beginning and read it from cover to cover. God says you will have no other gods before me, you have to believe and love him before anything, why when the Pharisees where trying to pigeon hold Jesus and ask him the greateast commandment he said the first. without the first you will never understand our God, our father and my love. Second he says love your neighbor as yourself, it covers all the rest of the commandments. You can't get to the rest of what he says, without the first. You have to give your life and hopefully your families life to him, because without him in our hearts you cant ask any other questions. God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit are all the same person, Its God. We are too pray and ask the Holy Spirit to enter our heats, Jesus to purify our sins, and that we know only through him can we get to the father, once we accept that we are to do what our father says, he is a loving God, he wouldnt be loving to us, other then to show He died for us. The holy spirit is in your hearts they go from hard as stone to accepting his truth. All of them Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are one in the same to me. The Holy spirit is in my heart that I will do righteousness, truth and liberty, Jesus is here for my sins, and to rebuild the covenant, commands and decrees for me,he is also the right hand of God,and to die for us, and unite us.God is here to make sure I follow his commandments, decrees, and stautues.I weep everytime I read the greaatest Love story never told to us, Our Father the greatest, My Love,and his Love Israel. He Loves his children, means He will go to no ends, to show us how much he really loves us. He is a Great God, listen to him and what he writes throughout the bible, and you will know who to Love and who to worship.

  12. Shalom to everyone:

    I understand everything you are saying and i am so happy for you that you believe in the Yahshua as well as his Father but what i don't understand is why do those who say they love him put what he says into practice, why don't they believe what he said, so therefore, how can they ever believe me what i say about him. I have struggle so much to make sense of this, i have separated myself from the world, i have remain in his love and commandments and i know that through this suffering, i am being perfected in Yahweh Elohim through Yahshua by remaining in him and bearing fruit. But i know in my heart that the Son, my Yahshua was never the father because even he said it.

    Matthew 16:13-20
    New International Version (NIV)
    Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah

    13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
    14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

    15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

    And again,

    Mark 12 >>
    New International Version 1984
    36David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
    “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
    until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’i
    37David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

    The large crowd listened to him with delight.

    There are so many other places in the scriptures that says the same thing like

    Proverbs 30:4
    Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His Son’s name? Surely you know!

    I believe that he is the Messiah, the Son of Elohim, our savior and only teacher. And he has been given all authority of heaven and earth.... And we are his children that Elohim has given him, including first the children of Israel, starting with his disciples.

  13. Shalom Alex,

    You wrote:

    This can be found in the scripture in John 14:15-21 which will make what John said in 1John 2:27 makes so much sense and again Yahshua said to those who were with him that when the other helper comes, meaning another person whom the Saints will see because Yahweh Spirit that is in Yahshua will also be in him and will also be in the Saints. This is what Yahshua meant when he said, "He will take what is mines and will make it known to you because all authority of heaven and earth has been given to me. This can be found in the following scripture as well: John 16:12-15

    John 16:12-15 is referring to the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit), not some other man. Please explain what you are trying to insinuate in your postings.

    Shalom,
    Ryan

  14. Psa 119:104 From Your orders I get understanding; Therefore I have hated every false way.

    Psa 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

    Psa 119:106 I have sworn, and I confirm, To guard Your righteous right-rulings.

    I just read the posting above by Alex where he said:

    Also, if your born again of the Spirit, that means that although you are in the flesh, you no longer walk according to the flesh because you are now a new person, born of the Spirit of Yahweh our Elohim, the same Spirit that resurrected Yahshua is in you and you can hear what he is telling you and by this you don't need to study on your own because even the Scriptures says in 1John 2:27 "As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him." So you see, not even you are allowed to teach yourself although it is good to check for yourself if what he is saying is true since you do have doubts in your heart.

    This is absolutely FALSE. You had better be studying the Scriptures because they were given to illuminate your path. Without careful study of the Scriptures, you will not know if it is the Spirit of YHWH leading you or a false spirit. What 1John 2:27 is saying is that you do not need another MAN to lead you astray, that you should stay in Messiah Yeshua.

    Alex, please check your email.

    Shalom,
    Ryan

  15. Shalom Ryan,

    I read your email, there were things i said to you that i prefer not to bring out in the open but prefer to email it to you privately so that you can enlighten me since i am in the quest of finding the truth that comes from Yahweh not from man...

    I understand that what we are talking about isn't what the topic is about so i would like if you can start another forum topic about what we are talking about so as to not confuse this topic for the other members concerning who should we worship....

  16. Then i can share with you what i have found in the scriptures as to why was i assuming that there might be another person whom we should be looking for but like i said, i am only trying to find the truth without saying anything that isn't truthful. We should have an open heart and not an open mind in understanding these spiritual matters. I believe that when reading the scripture, one must put into practice what he has read, the instructions given to us by our Teacher but not using private interpretation to it.

  17. Shalom Alex,

    If you want to continue the discussion on the matter of looking for another person, please post it on the following posting: http://wisdomintorah.com/bbpress/topic/is-there-someone-else-who-will-come-in-the-name-of-the-lord

  18. Nina,

    Here is what the Father says about the Son:

    Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O Elohim, is forever and ever, a sceptre of straightness is the sceptre of Your reign. (The Scriptures 1998).

    I use this verse to show to the J.W. that Yeshua is Elohim (not elohim) according to the Father Himself. I like your ocean-in-the glass analogy.

    Shalom.

  19. Shalom joegim!

    Go up to a few verses to Hebrews 1:3
    From the Complete Jewish Bible...
    "This Son is the radiance of the Sh'khinah, the very expression of God's essence, upholding all that exists by his powerful word; and after he had, through himself, made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of HaG'dulah BaM'romim."

    From the Scriptures...
    "...who being the brightness of the esteem and the exact representation of His substance, and sustaining all be the word of His power, having made a cleansing of our sins through Himself, sat down at the right hand of the Greatness on high,..."

    Another scripture that explains who Messiah Yeshuah is...

    Colossians 2:8-9

    "See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah. Because in Him dwells all the completeness of Elohim-ness bodily..."

    Complete Jewish Bible...

    "Watch out so that no one will take you captive by means of philosophy and empty deceit, following human tradition which accords with the elemental spirits of the world but does not accord with the Messiah. For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is."

    I think these verses make it clear that the Messiah is not Elohim in the flesh...rather he encompasses all the Elohim is...just like that jar of ocean water.

    I just came across another one. Matt 28:18 "Yeshuah came and talked with them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
    If He is God himself...why would he have to give himself all authority?
    Still the question remains...should we worship Messiah if he is not Elohim when we are told to worship Elohim alone. Hmmmm....

  20. Shalom NinaLucas,

    Would you clarify your question for me?

    If Yeshua is the Word and the Son of Elohim, and Messiah; how can you pray to Elohim (YHVH) without praying to Yeshua?

    Thank you little sister,

    Shalom,

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